Curse

Servant of Kali · Nov 21, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Please no flaming.

I usually make long intros and explanations but now im tired so i'll make it short.

With some of the new changes (insignias etc) PvPing with PvE character is really difficult, and in 90%+ cases not practical. Unless one uses the same build in PvP. It's tough to have so many armor/rune/insignia combinations as competitive pvp requires.

So, pvping with the fancy fow or 15k armor is like.. next to impossible unless you really can afford 50 pieces of armor.

Proposal
#1: give money rewards to all pvp battles (similiar to what exists now in Fort Aspenwood or Alliance Battles)
#2: make armor and weapon skins available for PvP chars, or that we can unlock them

Really, why does everyone needs to have same skins in PvP? Come on.. it's getting boring. Why would a PvE player mind if my PvP-only char has FoW armor skin? It's not like people who have time to farm FoW armors in PvE actually PvP, so we wont really be seeing each other.

ps: please dont start with "you have max weapons and armor what else would you want".

Not A Fifty Five · Nov 21, 2006, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Please no flaming.

I usually make long intros and explanations but now im tired so i'll make it short.

With some of the new changes (insignias etc) PvPing with PvE character is really difficult, and in 90%+ cases not practical. Unless one uses the same build in PvP. It's tough to have so many armor/rune/insignia combinations as competitive pvp requires.

So, pvping with the fancy fow or 15k armor is like.. next to impossible unless you really can afford 50 pieces of armor.

Proposal
#1: give money rewards to all pvp battles (similiar to what exists now in Fort Aspenwood or Alliance Battles)
#2: make armor and weapon skins available for PvP chars, or that we can unlock them

Really, why does everyone needs to have same skins in PvP? Come on.. it's getting boring. Why would a PvE player mind if my PvP-only char has FoW armor skin? It's not like people who have time to farm FoW armors in PvE actually PvP, so we wont really be seeing each other.

ps: please dont start with "you have max weapons and armor what else would you want".

Well Anet has implemented this one guys suggestions a lot because they're good =) one of them he's called smart armor, where it will absorb any inscriptions into it, so it is kinda like "unlocked" for that armor. If that were implemented, this issue wouldn't be an issue.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Hm... PvP is all about Balthazar faction.
With the new PvP only versions, some people may be lacking

Since now you can make any armor with any insignia...:

* Just make 3 starting armor models for ALL clases, loking the rest.
* Make all the other serts unlockable, some with 3k points, 6k, 9k points... some with insanely high ammounts, that would require you to have an 'inceasing max faction cap' title to be able to unlock them. Something like... 100k faction or so, XD.
* Since some unlocks can be made in some stages (blue-> purple-> gold) you could even go for more than the maximum cap, up to 3 times that cap, and making some armor arts unlocked once you unlock them in 'gold'.
* Unlocking then in PvE will be made the first time you get ALL the 4-5 parts of that armor art.
* Of course, unlocking would be 'per' class and art type, not only per art type. Thus, onlocking [Paragon's Primeval Armor] won't unlock any other Primeval or Paragon's.

Since PvP characters can't access to PvE areas (the two Faction competitive missions in Cantha are now fully considered PvP), they could no get an Unlocked Obsidian armor and go to any outpost or city to show off.
They also won't be able to dye those armor 'for free' with silver, black, white and mixed combinations, since they are PvE only and those armor can be only made with unmixed red, green, blue, yellow, orange, brown, purple and grey; so you'll notice anyways.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 21, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

I think the current system is fine, Money if for PvE not for PvP thats what Faction is for, and the Ascended armours are part of that. since in theory PvP chars have not ascended unless ofc there are a PvE/PvP char

Series · Nov 21, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

They also won't be able to dye those armor 'for free' with silver, black, white and mixed combinations, since they are PvE only and those armor can be only made with unmixed red, green, blue, yellow, orange, brown, purple and grey; so you'll notice anyways.

Actually, they will get "for free" silver, as the dye is silver NOT grey in the equipment window. If you don't believe me, try dying the armor silver- you will get an error saying that the armor is already dyed silver.

Dougal Kronik · Nov 21, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

If the money is a separate form of currency that is only available and usable in the battle Isle, it would be alright.

That way the PvP money making wouldn't affect the PvE environment.

Priest Of Sin · Nov 21, 2006, 05:03 PM // 17:03

In retrospect, my comment was a little harsh. Allow me to explain...

PvP= instant creation of WHATEVER you NEED, provided you have it unlocked.
PvE= want something? Farm for it.

PvP has already been given the ability to rune every 1.5k armor set (almost, anyhow).
PvE still has to grind for their sets, grind for their runes, grind for their insignias (ect)

In short, PvE is more about looks, PvP is more about functionality. In High-End GvG and HoH, you hardly ever see more than 2 PvE characters on a team, because they simply don't have the plethora of options that a PvP character has.

If an FoW armor unlock was available to PvPs, it should cost 1.5 MILLION faction with Balthazar... causing you to grind for it just like we do. Except you'd have to give it all in one shot.

Series · Nov 21, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

If the money is a separate form of currency that is only available and usable in the battle Isle, it would be alright.

That way the PvP money making wouldn't affect the PvE environment.

I like that idea.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Well... you cold say Balthazar faction is the PvP money.
You just don't have to pick up it.

Kool Pajamas · Nov 21, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Yea something should be done for this. I usually pve'd to get nice armor for my characters and then pvp'd. Now with the way pvp chars are it is kinda obsolete to use a pve in pvp. If i could unlock the nice skins (even if it costs 300k or whatever faction) then I could just limit my pve to a couple characters and have more time for pvp.

Gregslot · Nov 21, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Trade Balthazar Faction for gold? maybe... 5k balthazar = 1k gold
Add some more bonus for consecutive victories (of course)

And i dont like the idea for new skins for pvp, the 15k armor is what makes the pve character so much better then the pvp (when u have all runes, different headsets, all necesary weapons)

Very interesting idea

Servant of Kali · Nov 21, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Guys guys please...

What im saying is this:

PvP isnt only about stats. Yes, it's nice that we can have instant lvl20 chars BUT, ask yourself honestly this - would you like your characters to look differently? Would you like warrior strenght shield to look nicer than the one there is now (and which looks horrible)? Those who use pvp-only chars know how easy it is to accidently delete pvp-only char, so using pve shield (and other stuff) on pvp char is... just difficult.

This game has different armor and weapon skins already available. Im not asking for programming effort from ANet. Im asking to be able to play with those skins.. that's right, same stats, but different skins. Yes, it means i dont want only stats i want looks too. It makes the game more enjoyable. After you buy GW, the current system is ok. But i've been playing the game since the beginning, and seeing the same warrior strenght shield is boring. Im sorry, i can pretend it's "awesome max mod shield" but it's boring. I cannot play the game as if it was an Excel sheet.

Some of you may say "if you want looks, use PvE char in pvp". But this is exactly my point, how many of you use pve chars in pvp? How many of you who use pve chars in pvp, play high-end pvp with many builds? How many of you play different professions, not just one? I play mesmer, necromancer, ritualist, and dervish the most, with a bit of warrior (when need be, but not much lately) and i want to try out paragon as well. There is no freakin way i can buy armor sets in PvE, with different runes on different armor sets, different insignias, on different professions, different weapons and mods on them, weapon switches etc. It takes INSANE amount of time and money spent into that. PvP, at least, isnt about boasting what armor you have, or weapon skin. PvPers wouldnt be jealous at other pvpers if they had different armor skin. Being jealous for people having different armor/weapon skin is PvE issue.

Please, before making rash replies, understand that the amount of PvE chars in high end PvP (means, not RA) has been reduced insanely. With every new chapter, more skills, more possible builds, one will need more armor/insignia/weapon combinations. It's not practical.

Now, i understand that someone might disagree with me, but as a PvPer i find it, honestly, boring to play with same skins. I admit, i love eye-candy. We all do. They just convinced you that because you're PvPer you shouldnt love eye-candy. Try playing this game in pixelized resolution and you will see that graphic does matter.

My proposal is extreme and im aware of it. I think even FoW armor should be available to PvP only characters. They convinced you that FoW is for PvE grinders. But why shouldnt it be for PvP grinders? Make it so that i need tons of Balth faction to unlock it, but make it possible. I shouldnt be penalized for my playstyle. Getting to lvl20 in PvE doesnt take much, buying collector max weapon in PvE doesnt take much. They have convinced you that since you have max stats as PvP-only char, that you dont deserve anything else. WRONG! PvE characters can have max stats withing 1 day. 1 day. Why do i need to grind PvE in order to use armor for PvP-only?

Allow me. Reward me. Reward me for playing PvP. Everyone here who pvps a lot will know that withing few weeks tops, you can unlock all skills and other stuff for PvP. Getting Balthazar Faction is now fast, but it also means it's worth less. This change is good, but remember that we have nothing to PvP for. Yes, we get the pleasure for winning, but if PvErs got the pleasure for farming and just that, how many people would rebel? Yet it is not so, PvErs get pleasure for doing missions and farming AND they get tons of money for it. PvPers dont.

How many PvP characters you see, with PvE-only armor and weapons? Compared to PvP-only characters you see in PvP? Ask yourself this. Ask yourself, would you enjoy fighting with that Ranger more if it had 15k female druid armor? Fighting against warrior in some PvE-only armor? I would. It would make PvP more fun for me, more eye-candy which does increase fun. If the warrior attacking me had some mean-looking sword, i'd be more thrilled than i am when 99% warriors in PvP attack me, with a PvP-only sword skin. Boring.

Allow me. Allow me to use Balthazar Faction to unlock skins. For looks.

Allow me. Allow me at least then to get money reward instead of balthazar faction. I max balth faction within a month. What do i do for the remaining 5 months? Im not in top10 guild, im not going to win Championship and earn money. What do i play for? Reward me.

Why should PvE grinders be rewarded the most? Even PvE "normal" players who just do missions get bad rewards. Why is grinding awarded but playing the game the way it's supposed to be played, is not?

They have convinced us that skins and looks are not important to PvPers. Wrong. They do mean something to me. I can get perfect stats in PvE easily as well, 1k armor and collector weapons aint expensive. But i want to get more stuff by playing. Im not lazy, i dont say i should have everything out of the blue. I am going to earn it by beating other people. But allow me!

And last, but not the least - what does it mean to PvE grinder if my pvp-only character has FoW armor? People who farm in PvE dont usually have time for PvP. His FoW and my pvp-only FoW wont meet. We both earn it, and we both have it, and we both enjoying playing with it. Why would my armor and weapon skins harm PvE players? How?

Servant of Kali · Nov 21, 2006, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priest of Sin

If an FoW armor unlock was available to PvPs, it should cost 1.5 MILLION faction with Balthazar... causing you to grind for it just like we do. Except you'd have to give it all in one shot.

No, it shouldnt be like that. Yea, we need to unlock it, but not for such insane amount of faction.

You say "grind like we do", but hey, you PvE people LOVE grind. You're obsessed with grind. Look at yourself, you're selfish and greedy. PvPers are not. PvPers understand that they are better if they show more skill. PvErs on the other hand are selfish and jealous bunch. If one guy gets FoW armor, if he could he would disable it for everyone else.

Well guess what, im tired of selfish and jealous PvE personalities intruding PvP. Take your jealousy and selfishness to your PvE. DONT WORRY we wont intrude your pve with our pvp only characters. But dont tell us what should have in our pvp-only environment. It's not like you come to PvP with your precious armor, you're pvp noob, all that mindless bot farming means you had no time to become experienced in PvP. I hope you enjoy what you have, because in my eyes what you have is wasted time and inflated ego.

Series · Nov 21, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Servant of Kali, you seem like a cool dude, but seriously, reread those last posts you made. Those were some nice generalizations there, Mel Gibson. Calm down man, it's nothing worth freaking out about.

The only things I have to say is that you say "I shouldnt be penalized for my playstyle." If that's the case, why are PvE'ers penalized? PvE players have to grind to get simple things that you PvP players take for granted. The grass is always greener my friend. With your PvE shield example, however, thanks to the recent updates, I personally find myself deleting PvP only characters a LOT less. It isn't that impractical anymore to keep one PvP only character as a permanent character.

Oh and... if you mock people who own FoW armor, why do you care so much that you have it? Perhaps the PvE players aren't the only jealous people in this bunch.

Servant of Kali · Nov 21, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by series

If that's the case, why are PvE'ers penalized? PvE players have to grind to get simple things that you PvP players take for granted

Why? Because PvErs would quit playing PvE if they had nothing to grind. That's why. It's their mentality. Remember than Aesop's fable about scorpio and the frog?

We PvPers dont take anything for granted. Maybe you dont know how PvP looks like. When you buy GW, you have all skills unlocked. If you're a PvPer you need to play with premade builds to unlock stuff, then play a long time to unlock all.

Dont tell me how PvPers get it all. In the beginning of GW.. for quite a long time, we had to play PvE to get skills. Faction gain in PvP was so slow that it would take years.

The bottomline is, PvP players dont like grind. We wouldnt quit the game if we had all armor and weapon skins AND all skills unlocked from the start. PvErs need grind because that's obviously what keeps them in the game. Sad, but it's true. Whenever i open a discussion "lower/remove grind from PvE", that thread is filled with people who disagree. Hey, if they want grind, why would ANet remove it? But if PvPers dont want grind, why should we have it? To each his own.

Quote:

Oh and... if you mock people who own FoW armor, why do you care so much that you have it? Perhaps the PvE players aren't the only jealous people in this bunch.

You obviously have a problem with the definition of selfishness and jealousy. Im ok if everyone else has FoW armor or whatever armor he/she chooses. So how am i jealous? On the other hand PvErs would scream and ragequit the game if suddenly everyone could get FoW for free.

I dont mock people who have FoW, some are ok people. I mock the mentality of tons of PvE people. Besides, look at you, you're totally buying the propaganda, and you're not even realizing it. GW is becoming more and more separate into two entities; PvP and PvE. This is a good thing, as long as ANet realizes that they should treat these 2 mods differently.

Tell me, how would PvErs feel if they had to PvP to unlock non-elite skills? That's how i feel when i have to grind PvE to get stuff for PvP-only.

Just dont tell me how FoW armor look isnt important for PvP. Using the same logic i could say that non-starter armor isnt important for PvE. Hey, if i could sort of beat PvE with starter armor (AL10), then i can basically do it naked. Which means PvE is so easy it doesnt even require armor. In short, If PvPers dont need FoW for looks only, then PvErs dont need perfect armor mods at all. Fair nuff.

If you disagree with last 2 paragraphs, you're just proving my point. If you agree with them, you agree with my point. It's lose-lose situation for you.

milan · Nov 21, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Congrats on turning a well thought out arguement in your first post into a PvE bashing rant.

I was behind you on some of your suggestions until you lumped all PvE into one handy group of whiny greedy morons.

I'll address some of your issues

How would I feel if I had to PvP to unlock elites like you have to PvE to have equipment - Clearly irrelevent, as you've stated time and time again you don't need to PvE for equipment.

We PvPers dont take anything for granted. Maybe you dont know how PvP looks like. When you buy GW, you have all skills unlocked. - Again clearly untrue, PvE characters gain access to skills in a tiered manner, at certain stages of the game.

Dont tell me how PvPers get it all. In the beginning of GW.. for quite a long time, we had to play PvE to get skills. Faction gain in PvP was so slow that it would take years. - Yet now PvP has Balth Faction, Dboule faction weekends and now the PvP only skill unlock packs.

PvErs need grind because that's obviously what keeps them in the game. Sad, but it's true. - Another baseless generalisation, can we have some supporting facts for this please?

GW is becoming more and more separate into two entities; PvP and PvE. This is a good thing, as long as ANet realizes that they should treat these 2 mods differently. - Yet you don't want them treated differently?

In short, If PvPers dont need FoW for looks only, then PvErs dont need perfect armor mods at all. Fair nuff. - Blah blah blah, again with the stats and such, PvP characters get perfect mods and armour (agreed we have to unlock the mods via faction) Looks have nothing to do with the functionality so your arguement isn't really relevant.

DONT WORRY we wont intrude your pve with our pvp only characters. - In a roundabout way PvP does intrude quite a lot into PvE, and to a smaller extent vice versa with skill updates (nerfs/buffs) targeted at once side and automatically affecting the other.

ou're pvp noob, all that mindless bot farming means you had no time to become experienced in PvP - Wow....just wow.

If you disagree with last 2 paragraphs, you're just proving my point - Erm, how exactly?

However in closing I'm personally more than happy for PvP characters to get PvE skins with the required faction. For armour unlocks it could be as simple as using 1gold = 1 faction. So a single 15k armour piece would cost 15,000 faction and x amount faction for the material cost (materials cost could be a mean average of in game prices over a period).

As you've already said faction is incredibly easy to come by, since NF came out I've been able to start spending faction again but once I unlock everything it'll be back to useless so the amounts shouldn't be a problem. As for getting that faction it isn't really grind is it. Faction is a byproduct of PvP not the reason for it. If you enjoy PvP you're bound to rack up the faction so it isn't a chore.

Yes I PvE, yes I PvP (only rank 5 at the moment but getting there slowly!) and I enjoy them both.

Series · Nov 22, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Now I see why the first thing you said was "please, no flaming". Stop being ignorant kthx.

Relnor · Nov 22, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

With some of the new changes (insignias etc) PvPing with PvE character is really difficult, and in 90%+ cases not practical.

Make a PvP character. Problem solved.

Savio · Nov 22, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

You're obsessed with grind. Look at yourself, you're selfish and greedy. PvPers are not. PvPers understand that they are better if they show more skill. PvErs on the other hand are selfish and jealous bunch.

Textbook flaming.

Quote:

If you disagree with last 2 paragraphs, you're just proving my point. If you agree with them, you agree with my point. It's lose-lose situation for you.

If you can't accept other people's points of view, then you're better off not being on a forum. Closed for flaming and trolling.